How much should people pay for programming strategies
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antman
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:53 am
- Location: England
How much should people pay for programming strategies
How much should people pay for programming strategies
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FT Support
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:54 am
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Tantalus
- Posts: 302
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:51 pm
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FT Support is correct. The cost of a Strategy can cover a very wide range, and it's very difficult to know in advance how much it will cost to develop, because until you start writing the program you may have no idea what really needs to be done.
I typically figured a minimum of $75 for any Strategy and I always told potential clients that the price could be much higher if they wanted a complex strategy with many unique capabilities and lots of adjustment capability. There were also many times when I could not create a Strategy without first making a custom indicator as well, which adds to the cost, and must be considered in the initial quote.
Quoting for such a programming job causes problems, too, because the only way to give a truly accurate quote is to spend time carefully figuring out exactly how the program would be designed - what indicators may be used, what functions are necessary, whether to trade continuously or only at the end of each bar, etc. This work is actually a great deal of what is necessary to write the Strategy, so it is hard to justify spending the time (= money) to do all this before the job is approved - you end up giving away a whole lot of time (= money) to clients who never actually place an order.
Another problem which is particularly present with Strategy development is that many clients don't really know exactly what they want. If I give a quote and start working based on a vague description from a client who is not clear on what they want, I will almost certainly have to spend extra time (= money) changing things once they realize that what they actually wanted was not what they originally told me they wanted. If I want to be absolutely clear as to what the client wants before I quote the job (to avoid expensive re-writes) I need to spend even more time (= money) asking questions and getting clarification from the client, which can take many back and forth emails. Then there are also those clients who will inevitably get exactly what they asked for, then write back and say "I'd also like this other new feature... can you just throw that in for me" which means they want more work for free.
These are some of the reasons that I have stopped doing custom programming. The answer to the question "what should a Strategy cost" cannot be definitively given, because each and every Strategy job is different. You could easily pay $1000 for a custom programmed Strategy and still the programmer may lose money, if the job took more time than they planned.
I typically figured a minimum of $75 for any Strategy and I always told potential clients that the price could be much higher if they wanted a complex strategy with many unique capabilities and lots of adjustment capability. There were also many times when I could not create a Strategy without first making a custom indicator as well, which adds to the cost, and must be considered in the initial quote.
Quoting for such a programming job causes problems, too, because the only way to give a truly accurate quote is to spend time carefully figuring out exactly how the program would be designed - what indicators may be used, what functions are necessary, whether to trade continuously or only at the end of each bar, etc. This work is actually a great deal of what is necessary to write the Strategy, so it is hard to justify spending the time (= money) to do all this before the job is approved - you end up giving away a whole lot of time (= money) to clients who never actually place an order.
Another problem which is particularly present with Strategy development is that many clients don't really know exactly what they want. If I give a quote and start working based on a vague description from a client who is not clear on what they want, I will almost certainly have to spend extra time (= money) changing things once they realize that what they actually wanted was not what they originally told me they wanted. If I want to be absolutely clear as to what the client wants before I quote the job (to avoid expensive re-writes) I need to spend even more time (= money) asking questions and getting clarification from the client, which can take many back and forth emails. Then there are also those clients who will inevitably get exactly what they asked for, then write back and say "I'd also like this other new feature... can you just throw that in for me" which means they want more work for free.
These are some of the reasons that I have stopped doing custom programming. The answer to the question "what should a Strategy cost" cannot be definitively given, because each and every Strategy job is different. You could easily pay $1000 for a custom programmed Strategy and still the programmer may lose money, if the job took more time than they planned.
Tantalus Research - Developing 21st Century Trading Systems.
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dackjaniels
- Posts: 151
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:03 pm
Very well articulated Tantalus. I've found the exact same thing when programming strategies and indicators for other people.
The most important thing as you said is getting a good description upfront and agreeing what is included in the price. When you treat customers well and offer good support they will often say something along the lines of "I want this new feature added, please add it to my bill" rather than expecting it to be included already. Of course there are those that always want something for nothing but they generally don't last long as customers.
I have a few loyal clients who come back for more and are a pleasure to work for. As for the ones who request a quote (which can take significant time) and then never get back in touch, yeah I wasted some time on them, but a lot less time possibly than if they had the work done and expected 3 months of 'updates' for nothing.
I think a lot of people have no idea how much time it can take to program properly. Knowing how to program in Delphi or C++ is just a small part of the knowledge needed. A good understanding of the FT/MT4 API and a good knowledge of how different types of strategies work is very much a neccessity.
A job that is relatively simple can turn into a lengthy nightmare all over one simple missed punctuation, uninitialised variable or malformed if...then...else statement, not to mention what happens when you misunderstand what was required in the first place!
That said, I enjoy what I do and hope to continue.
If you are no longer taking on such work yourself, feel free to refer any requests to me
Steve
The most important thing as you said is getting a good description upfront and agreeing what is included in the price. When you treat customers well and offer good support they will often say something along the lines of "I want this new feature added, please add it to my bill" rather than expecting it to be included already. Of course there are those that always want something for nothing but they generally don't last long as customers.
I have a few loyal clients who come back for more and are a pleasure to work for. As for the ones who request a quote (which can take significant time) and then never get back in touch, yeah I wasted some time on them, but a lot less time possibly than if they had the work done and expected 3 months of 'updates' for nothing.
I think a lot of people have no idea how much time it can take to program properly. Knowing how to program in Delphi or C++ is just a small part of the knowledge needed. A good understanding of the FT/MT4 API and a good knowledge of how different types of strategies work is very much a neccessity.
A job that is relatively simple can turn into a lengthy nightmare all over one simple missed punctuation, uninitialised variable or malformed if...then...else statement, not to mention what happens when you misunderstand what was required in the first place!
That said, I enjoy what I do and hope to continue.
If you are no longer taking on such work yourself, feel free to refer any requests to me
Steve
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